Wednesday, February 14, 2007

Angry Reader Submission

In the course of writing this blog, we've realized that we can't be beloved by everyone. Apparently our rantings have hit a nerve. Here's D's own rants against ours. Usually we've been waiting at the end of stories to add our own little tidbit but as D's email was full of questions and firm statements, it makes sense to retort in a more timely manner:

"I am getting tired of hearing women rag on expat men all the time. I know this is meant to be a way of women to cope with problems they have with dating men in China but why do I an expat man keep being told."
Hm... even though you did not end that in a question mark, you do indeed mean it as a question. The answer to your query is that men do stupid things. The trend in our circles happens to be biased towards EXPAT men doing stupid things. We'll be the first to point out and openly invite stories targeting at all races and not just expat guys but you have to admit, this particular group makes themselves an easy target.

If you are a decent human being, then our posts should be mere vicarious stories for you to gasp in horror to just like the rest of us. If you do, indeed feel like we are addressing you personally, then well... what can we say? Perhaps a deeper, introspective look at your own flaws would be better than asking rhetorical questions and not punctuating them correctly.

Yes, a female friend of mine sent me this link. All this site does is stereotype. For example, That Chinese girls are submissive and do what you want.
Um... D. We've been trying very hard NOT to stereotype but if you have to get down to it, stereotypes exist because deep down there's a basis of truth. We have never said that ALL Chinese girls are submissive; however, we will stick by our statements that a number of them probably do not stick up for themselves the way they should. Our own guy friends who have dated Chinese girls have reflected this back to us so you know, if other people think it too it MUST be true.

I having a relationship with a Chinese girl she is good looking but I have dated women at the same level back in the states. To be honest she is so much more work than any American girl I have ever had. First of all just randomly she is mad because I broke some Chinese dating custom that I had no idea even existed.
Ok we'll give you this one. That does happen quite a bit, but did she blow up at you and straight up tell you to your face or did she just seethe silently and swallow her anger?

Also, she was raised by an upper middle class family, just like mine, but her parents spoiled the crap out of her so she tried to act like a spoiled child and I have to stop that. I have never put this much work in a relationship in my life.
Agreed. Acting as a parent and a significant other is a pain.

You guys always complain about expat men sleeping with Chinese women but most of you won’t even touch a Chinese guy because I don’t know why. I met many Chinese men that are great guys in any country but no expat women will date them. I know 50 expat women some friends some you just see at a party and I only know one who dates a Chinese man. He a good guy sometimes they have problems but who doesn’t.
Um... was that a question again?

If expat men are so terrible why not find a good Chinese man? There is like 700 million of them so even if 1 out of 100 of them is good there are enough men in china for the expat girls.
Hm... right 700 million. There's 1.3 billion Chinese total. I'm not sure if your number is correct there D. If we take out all the people living in the countryside because we love nature but that doesn't mean we want to be wives of farmers, old people, young kids, married men I'm pretty sure your 700million gets whittled down quite a bit.

Not sure if you've tried it but finding a good Chinese man is pretty hard. It's not like the streets are exactly filled with good-looking, funny, socially adjusted Chinese men are they? We're not against dating Chinese guys but you're attracted to who you're attracted to. Lets be honest, Chinese women are often MUCH better looking than Chinese guys. We'd dare say its a 10 to 1 ratio of hot Chinese women to hot Chinese guys. Yeah, you can blabber on about how that's SO superficial but attraction is important. More often than not the hot, funny, cool Chinese guy, already has an even hotter, cooler and funnier Chinese girlfriend so how can we even compete?

Personality is important too and oftentimes many single Chinese guys (and expats) are lacking in that arena as well. If there is a hot, available non-douchbaggy Chinese guy please let us know. We'll be more than happy to date him.

Lets look at the post for January, “Bad Kisser”, your going to give us shit because one 20 something can’t kiss.”
First off: your, you're

Did you finish reading that story D? Because, not only was he a bad kisser, he said he wanted the opportunity to "fuck her"? Perhaps the derision towards this guy lies more in his tactless request of pussy rather than his lack of skill. Then again, if you're kissing so hard that a girl's lip ring pops out you're a terrible kisser and all her friends and your friends know. Random strangers on China Dirt laughing at you is kinda moot at that point.

The Finding Himself Man”, you dated a lazy fucker, there everywhere.
And an unsually high concentration reside in China!

Where were your friends? If you were my friends I would have told you he was a lazy fucker.”
Good for you. Your friends must love you for your honesty and bashing the people they care about. Of course we told her that her boyfriend wasn't the best for her, but in the end, its her choice isnt it? She chose to put up with it until she couldn't anymore. Being a friend isn't forcing other friends into your point of view, it's being there when they're ready to admit to themselves that it's a mistake.

A Cynic’s View of Sexpat Men: The Sleaze Ratings (Low to High)”, this is ok because it at least admits it is meant to be stereotyping. Also, a little funny. My wraith is waning so now I am going to stop typing. Answer the question why only a few expat women date Chinese men.
Whew, thanks for that email D. We're glad your "wraith" is waning.


Megan said...

You go China Dirt! Expat D(irt) is a douche, can't do math or spell. Way to squander an upper-middle class upbringing. Lol!

M said...

Hey D, you do ask an interesting question. As a Caucasian expat female, I acknowledge I am in the minority for dating Chinese guys, and I know there are a lot of expat girls that just aren't attracted, for whatever reason. But even though I do find some Chinese men attractive, one major problem is that most of them get married very young, which decreases the pool of available ones significantly. No problem if you're early 20s, but late 20s and older? Nearly impossible! Add to this the cultural / language problems, and the shyness some have in dealing with foreigners, and pairings of expat girls with Chinese guys becomes even more unlikely. Which leaves expat girls in the position of putting up with more bad news expat guys than they should - so let them vent!

Don said...

"Hm... right 700 million. There's 1.3 billion Chinese total. I'm not sure if your number is correct there D."

Uh oh. I'm afraid he is about right with that 700 million figure. That kind of doused the head of steam you were building up while ridiculing the guy's spelling and punctuation. Ad hominem attacks are lame even if you don't make the mistake of smart-assedly telling someone their facts are wrong when they're not.

Perhaps you really meant to say "OK, there may be 700 million Chinese males, but we're arbitrarily ruling out the vast majority of them who live outside large cosmopolitan cities". But if that's the case, then you have to agree that it's more than a bit hypocritical when "good" expat guys not so arbitraily rule out dating whiny, complaining women like most of the posters here. I know it feels good to vent, but you might just have created a self-fulfilling prophecy with your blog.

I've double-checked my spelling and punctuation, but I may have left a dangling participle, in which case I hope you won't be too hard on me if you respond.

China Dirt said...

Megan: Thanks for the support!

m: You summed up the Chinese guy problem perfectly. We were only able to point out the superficial aspects but you fleshed out to give the argument real heart. Thanks for picking up our slack.

Don: Um... not to be picky but we ran some numbers and there are in fact around 676 million men NOT the 700 million as D had stated so technically, his number was incorrect. (That was a joke by the way)

Grammar and punctuation ribbing is never lame. I believe that you are misinformed on that point. In fact, last year Cosmo wrote an entire feature on how cool it was, and we all know Cosmo is the pundit on what's hot and what's not.

Your comment about how our rants will turn off "good" expat guys. Guys here need to stop being so spoiled and stuck on themselves. Just because a certain faction of the population may think you're better than butter, that doesn't make it true.

Like we told D, if these rants don't apply to you, why would they bother you so much? These stories are true and these people we profile are ones that you probably know.

Our motto is to put a smile on some girl who got fucked over by a guy, not to soothe the multitudes of over-bloated male egos. We're not trying to attract dates on this sites, we're just opening up a forum to let out anger over the shitty ones.

Finally, everything in this blog is tongue in cheek. It's meant to be taken with a sense of humor.

Don said...

I am humbled. Even we lowly males know better than to contradict Cosmo.

I'm about as self-loathing as a guy can get, so I don't think I consider myself "better than butter", though I love that turn of phrase. And while Chinese women might give me bonus points from the get-go because I'm a foreign male, as I understand from you and many other sources is the case, I haven't been here long enough to really notice that for myself. If that's true, though, you ought to blame Chinese women, not expat guys who've lucked into such a positive (in their eyes) situation.

I do happen to have a Chinese girlfriend, though I don't beleive she thinks I'm all that just because I'm American. In fact, it's dawning on me that I might be just a little pussywhipped. (Should that be hypenated?) You might be happy to know that she's almost my own age, too, and I'm an old man compared to you twenty-somethings. And I'm not into her due to "yellow fever", I'm into her because she's an awesome woman.

I'm actually a fan of your blog, and after re-reading my first comment, I must have been having a bit of a bad day to make me bite back a little on behalf of my gender. While I occasionally think your vitriole is a little harsh, I know you're just having some fun here. Plus, mispelling happens to be a huge pet peeve of mine too; although I prefer just to think less of the misspeller than to point out the errors to him/her.

Also, I've only been an expat for all of one month now, so I still have a total lack of understanding of social conditions here. I suppose I should take your word that the dating scene for expat women in China is as dire as you make it out to be, at least until I've been in the suck long enough to develop a semi-informed opinion of my own. Until then, all I can do is absorb the opinions I come across from y'all and others. In the meantime, I hope I can continue to glean some dating scene intelligence from your blog. Keep it up.

P.S. After pointing out how careful I was about my spelling in my first comment, I realized I misspelled "arbitrary". Doh!

Peter said...

God bless blogging. It's all about the outlet.

I just hope I'm mature enough to handle the post that's going to be about me.


Ron said...

I'm stuck in an airport reading this stuff and laughing my ass off. Great fun. The funniest stuff, of course, has truth in it.

I'm a US guy here for 3 weeks. I've been trying to figure out if I'm FHM and/or LBH and I think I've self-determined that I'm LE (Loser Everywhere). hehe.

nina said...

it's really nice for me to find this blog to read on. being a girl myself in beijing, and also being regarded as ranting and biatching about guys here too much when they actually deserve it...i really enjoy reading your writtings.

Hope my message finds you well and would like to see your keep posting here.

Tons of Love to you, sista.

A said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
A said...

Yes, the articulate win the argument. But that isn't what wins love. And is does create animosity. Despite your tongue-n-cheek (I wonder why certain cultures feel the need to constantly be so in-your-face to get a laugh).

I feel for men or women going through rough patches but bashing a specific group of men isn't the way to go.

Honestly, I doubt you did much better with the true blues back home. Perhaps you no longer aim for the ivy league 'quality' men or perhaps you simply don't qualify (or are you another gold digger? I wonder if Chinese gentlemen would welcome someone of your disposition, and I wonder if you consider all N. American men dreamy?). Apologies if you are not N. American but you reek it.

If you're looking for good guys, don't go to party central. Perhaps change your circle or changing yourself? I would assume intelligent folks back where you're from would do the same. Wish you the best, but stop hating and learn more about China.

Michael Turton said...

You are not repeat not permitted to write posts this funny when I am surreptiously surfing the internet in class!


Anonymous said...

I followed a link on another blog and stumbled on this amusing and depressing anthology of diatribes. Although I also deplore D's inability to master the rudiments of English orthography, I did share a bit of his bemusement about this blog.

I have lived here for a few years, and to be honest do not really recognize the men you describe here. I don't personally know any foreigners here who are alcoholics, blatantly lecherous or dishonest with their partners, or whose hobbies involve brothels filled with Mongolian girls. I'm sure such people exist, much as they would in any country. I'm just saying that I don't come across them socially, hence I question how common they really are.

Let's assume that my experience is completely unrepresentative, and that somehow I've avoided the mainstream expat lifestyle. Is it really is as terrible as you make out? I ask this out of genuine curiosity. There are colleagues of mine who socialize primarily with other expats (although I myself do not), and they don't fit the descriptions on this blog either. That being said, they are mostly happily married, which may have something to do with it.

Nephryte said...

Love this blog. I wish we could get a Chinese women or two to join in, so they could talk about their experiences with the expat men... now wouldn't that be a trip?

As for why non-Chinese women don't date Chinese men... um, I think attraction is a two-way street. Chinese men don't necessarily find us very attractive either. We're broad (in all senses) and unwieldy and exaggerated when you are used to East Asian women. So we'd need a Chinese man with a taste for the exotic to even consider us - and, like his black/white exoticising counterparts, he is likely travelling or working in the country where his preferred type is abundant rather than staying on at home with the women he considers boring. Which is quite probably why I've always had a fun time dating Asian men in my home country yet never once even had a nibble in China...

JennyLiu said...

700million Chinese men but hey, the reality is... more than 80% of them aren't datable. We're talking about farmers, construction workers, those working in McDonald's, etc. And how many of them make over 5000rmb?! Honestly... there definitely are the ones who make TONS of money who are local Chinese men... but those are already TAKEN by several Chinese women.

fanfusuzi said...


Here in Shenzhen, your experience is completely unrepresentative.


Is it just me, or is this blog being subjected to disproportionate scrutiny? Comparing the comments here to those on other China blogs, it seems the authors are being held to a higher standard than many of their male counterparts.

If some women aren't exactly prim and proper, and enjoy relaxing over drinks with the girls/boys, I don't see how that disallows them the occasional rant. They don't have to be perfect to observe the men around them.

To those who feel the posts here don't do them justice: they weren't written for you. Do yourself justice.

Now I will go do my thing and leave the authors here to do theirs.

Best wishes

Al L said...

you said: "We're not against dating Chinese guys but you're attracted to who you're attracted to. Lets be honest, Chinese women are often MUCH better looking than Chinese guys. We'd dare say its a 10 to 1 ratio of hot Chinese women to hot Chinese guys."
Um..WHAT!? Men and women of a race are similar, not different. You won't find a race of Black men who are big, strong, loud, aggressive, and women who are small, quiet, submissive.

Asian men are intelligent, kind, loving, giving, great fathers and husbands, very fit, and funny.

Your views are simply a reflection of Hollywood images, which constantly fetishize Asian women and demean Asian men.

thepookguy said...

So you're in China and you have a racist aversion to their men, and yet you complain you can't get a date?


People like you should never have been allowed to hold a passport

soulman386 said...

It amazes me how some women can go to Asian countries professing a fascination with asian people and culture but turn their noses up on asian men. There's something terribly wrong with that. It's truly racist! It's an insult. If that's your attitude you have no business living in Asia.

Being around asian men all my life I know that they're generally very physically attracted to caucasian girls. Maybe some wouldn't want to marry one cuz of cultural and family issues. But the attraction is definitely strong. They like the more shapely figures, pretty narrow faces, big eyes, light hair, white skin. If asian guys aren't attracted to you it's because you haven't been blessed with beauty. It's not because you're white.

mick said...

look on the bright side ladies,when you go back to your western country,you wont have all the asian competition! unless of course,you live in california-the women their do just as much whining as you do here. in the meantime,try dating the local men!

TITAN said...

To be honest here. I don't even understand why these expat women are whining. Unless they are some grossly overweighted slobs who are misled back home to think of themselves as BBW (Yes, it stands for Big Beautiful Women), they should have not problem competing. The local Chinese women feel threatened by the Nicole Kidman and Katherine Heigl type, tall blonde, and shapely. Chinese women would die to have western features. So have some confidence, expat women