Monday, March 12, 2007

numeration and clarification

Sorry we haven't been posting. With all the emails and comments, it's been far easier and more time-efficient to just kind of let the comments and emails run their natural course. However, with reading the comments and our slew of emails, we at China Dirt feel compelled to remind everyone what this blog is about and what it is not about. Read on...

1. We are not here to try and get dates. Please stop sending us emails with "advice" about how we're never going to snag a man.

2. Guys get away with a lot in China, moreso than in their home countries. Once again, this is a fact, not something that we fabricated. Given that point, guys in China also oftentimes act in a way that they would not act in their home countries given the social constraints and standards of decorum there. We're not quite sure about why some people may think this blog is meant to be illuminating on China as a whole or provide some sort of insightful commentary on the culture of the country.

This blog is meant to give anecdotal accounts of idiotic guy behavior in the context of China. If the story is about a guy and he acts idiotically and this something we experienced in China, then it ends up on the blog. If you want to read blogs that delve deep into the psyche of the Chinese culture and history, you've taken a wrong turn and took yourself to a dark, dark place. To escape we suggest visiting this site.

3. Please stop with the "common denominator is you" and "why don't you look at yourself" emails and comments. A. We never had this much trouble finding a decent guy in our home countries yet in China it's one loser after another. *

B. As for the, "look at yourself before you start blaming other people," we'd like to refer to a scene in Bridget Jones' Diary. (Once again, if you were looking for a complex and riveting social commentary on China, please stop reading now.) It's the scene where Bridget tells Mark Darcy something to the effect of, "You neednt make me feel stupid, I feel stupid on my own most of the time."

Do you really think we bounce from relationship to relationship pointing the finger at the other person shrieking, "It's you DAMMIT, It's YOU AND NOT ME!"? Well, maybe. We're here to tell you that's not the case. Often we find girls painstakingly analyzing how she can make her relationship work. How she can modify the way she acts, how she should loosen up and go with the flow more. A girl who is rationalizing lowering her standards. We at China Dirt say No More Rationalizing. So you want someone who's life ambition goes beyond getting trashed every weekend, you want a guy who stays not just when things are going well but when things need to be worked through. Why shouldn't you get one like that? It's not impossible to find someone like that in China, but it's pretty fucking hard.

*To preempt the comment that goes "Well if you had such a decent guy in your home country, why are you alone and dating in China?" We're dating in China because obviously, for whatever reason, those relationships didn't work out; however, our home country relationships ended because it just wasn't working out and not because a. the guy was an alcoholic b. the guy had an over-inflated ego c. the guy bolted at the first sign of difficulty or d. mix and match choices a through c.

4. It's our blog and we'll bitch if we want to. This site is how we deal with our frustrations about the dating scene in China. Anyone reading has probably experienced the pain of a break up or complained about a unreasonable significant other. Some girls deal with break ups by sobbing into pillows, some burn the ex-boyfriend's posessions, some (true story) stab the guy with butter knives, we've decided to make a snarky blog. We know that we're all taught to hold in our emotions, to play off the hurt, to keep the pride. Sometimes you need to be messy before you can start playing it cool. This site lets girls do that.

5. Girls with personality and who know how to speak their own minds are a "pain in the ass"? China is too fucking easy for you guys.

6. We realize that we've been throwing a lot of 'tude around in this post so we'd like to take number six to thank all our readers (even those who are vocal in their disagreements). We appreciate and are a bit shocked by the attention this blog has gotten. We're glad that the blog has taken a life of its own and hope to keep up the momentum. We also hope that people keep sending us more stories and this site can be a collection of anecdotes rather than just general rants because generally ranting tends to get boring and old rather quickly.

A reporter recently asked us how we feel about the "personal attacks" we've been getting on the site and our view is that everyone is welcome to their own opinion. We've certainly stated ours and most of them are quite unflattering so of course we expect emails that are unflattering towards us. That being said, take the blog for what it is and judge it on that platform. Thanks for all the feedback and like typical girls we hope to get more, more, more in the future.

Keep Dishing,
China Dirt


Peking Man said...

So, to summarise:

"All the cool things you thought this blog might be, it isn't, it's just, well, we don't really know, but... LOOK! a Bridget Jones reference!"

The +ve that I got out of your "explanation"?

That maybe, just maybe, you are starting to understand that if you put true stories up here, there might be something you, and your audience, can gain from it.

If you keep putting up the transparent fables the response will continue to be somewhat hostile.

Oh, and I note with amusement that the irony of putting up a blog post that says "stop coming here you idiots!" seems to be entirely lost on you.

Keith said...

I don't mean this as an attack...I just wanted to mention that your posts remind me strongly of similar, and yet opposite arguments about expat dating in Russia in the publication the eXile.

The eXile had a strong male-chauvinist slant, and their opinion was that Russian women were better for dating than expat women for various reasons (of which you would not approve!)

It's amusing because it's like having seen 'both sides of the mirror'...

I enjoy the blog.


China Dirt said...

We try to to personally attack anyone, with the exception of maybe D in the Angry Reader Submission post but Peking Man is grating on our last nerve.

Peking Man: 1. That story was not a fable...and it certainly wasn't about you. We have no idea who you are.

Oh, yes, we've noticed how you've posted the story up on your blog, and tried to pass yourself off as the one we were talking about. We would have pointed out your pathetic attempt to drive people to your site but that would have required us linking you, something you were hoping for maybe? But it looks like you've gone and linked yourself in your comment. How thoughtful of you.

The stories we post are true. The ones that are emailed to us, we assume to be true as well. We're not the truth police and we cant fact check to make sure all the emails we get actually happened so we go by the honor system and common sense. Certain facts are modified perhaps like taking out names or removing work details to keep people anonymous but the accounts are not "transparent fables." We rarely get offended but you've just offended us.

2. Did you even bother reading this post or did you just sense the attitude and scrambled to post a comment linking your blog to this? Who the fuck said that we asked people to stop coming to the site and then called them idiots?!

We simply stated that we are a site that posts rants about dating in China not a site that delves deep into the nuances of the Chinese culture.

We appreciate more than anyone how popular this site has become but we don't quite understand why we're constantly critisized about not "getting China" or not posting brillant political commentary. We're simply suggesting that if that is what you are looking for in a blog, you won't be getting that here.

The Bridget Jones' thing was supposed to be tongue in cheek. Kinda like "Oh look, we'll be girly by defending ourselves via a line from a chick flick." I guess that humor was lost on you. But in all honesty, for a chick flick, BJones (that's how we call it in the inner circles) is actually quite decent. We're not ashamed of our quote choice. Of course it would have been better if it came from Cosmo or Sex and the City but we couldn't think of anything off the top of our heads. (That was a joke.) Usually we wouldn't have put that paranthesis there but you seem like you would need the extra hint.

Conclusion, everyone is welcome on our site but come expecting it for what it is: anecdotes on the dating scene in China. Differing opinions are welcomed, personal attacks are usually entertianing and praise is always appreciated as we're very vain and enjoy having our ego boosted.

Daniel said...

Have you girls considered dating local Chinese men?

This blog has been enlightening for me. Being a Chinese-American guy, I always see asian girls dating white guys in the US. This blog confirms my suspicions that the same phenomenon is happening in China.

Shaan Khan said...

I complained about the typos before (forgive me for being anal, but Western writing standards have dropped through the floor in the past several years) and you haven't fixed them. Okay, so you don't care about that. But now you suggest that for those of us who wish to see 'deep into the psyche of the Chinese culture and history', to visit a link that leads us to the following:

Not Found

Error 404

Is that really what you think of Chinese history and culture? For shame...

And if, as you say, women refer to Ms. Bridget Jones as BJones for short, I suggest simplifying it one step further, for the benefit and pleasure of my addle-brained male comrades.

Peking Man said...

>>it certainly wasn't about you

So, you've maintained contact with your Northern European ass-grabber, have you, and know that for certain?

>>Who the fuck said that we asked people to stop coming to the site and then called them idiots?!

You did, in this post, before you edited it. I'm not the only one who saw it.

And you have the hide to write "The stories we post are true". What, is that before or after the major edits?

>>We would have pointed out your pathetic attempt to drive people to your site

I have a personal blog. I don't care who reads it. You, on the other hand, have a subtitle which reads "Could the men living in China get any more retarded?" and a blog filled with posts that stop just short of slander.

You're linked to (presumably after you made some phone calls) from Kaiser's site and Danwei.

Someone is certainly making pathetic attempts to drive traffic, but it ain't me.

Maggie said...

you go girls. it's your own freaking blog, you can write whatever the freak you want to write about. freaking freak! there's no need to appease these beasts. there's no need to justify your writings. if they don't like what they read, they can always go read some other people's blogs to live vicariously via someone else's lives and get all irrate. but we all know it's the damn truth that some expats (esp men) behave badly, and being far away from home, they feel they can do so. they can practically get away with murder in this country, so what's there to argue about?

but dating and sex aside, i hope your experience in china hasn't all been terrible. as hard as it may be, do try to enjoy your time in china, and hope you'd get a chance to see the rest of the country and not just being stuck in beijing.

love your blog.

China Dirt said...

Peking man,

Ridiculous doesn't even start to describe who you are. We'd respond to your string of foam-at-the-mouth accusations but frankly, we can't be fucked to waste another minute on you.

Best of luck,
China Dirt

Peking Man said...

>>We'd respond to your string of foam-at-the-mouth accusations

Kind of like I responded to yours?


Dish it out but can't take it, eh?

That would be the other thing you don't have in common with Bridget Jones.

Shaan Khan said...

I think china dirt and peking man are off to a wonderful beginning. 加油,you two! (aren't they so cute!)

Peking Man said...

Shaan Khan, LOL!

I was willing! Both versions of the story are pretty clear about that!

Mitch said...

Dear China Dirt,

I agree with maggie above. Why do you feel the need to defend yourself? If you want to keep on writing, or syndicating submissions from others, then go quietly on.

Frankly, my friends and I are amused by Fuck! because we get to witness the small fender-benders of your lives. Your "snarky" venting, layered on top, is okay too. You've created a persona that keeps us coming back. While we get the strong feeling that dating either of you would make all parties involved terribly unhappy (for just as much as our follies as yours, I am sure), you're still someone we'd grab a drink with (Nan Jie or Centro, your pick)

But the moment you start to defend yourself, we're not so sure anymore. If bitchiness is your calling, then make it your vocation. Ann Coulter may be a cunt but she's a brilliant one because she's utterly unapologetic. If you try to eviscerate expat men in one post and then parry their counterattacks in the next, we get the feeling that the bitchiness is just a front for someone who desperately needs reassurance. And then we get this sour feeling in our mouths like we just found out our childhood baseball hero is actually a child molester. Don't equivocate, China Dirt. We like Moktada al-China Dirt, not John Kerry China Dirt.

Let me surmount yet another higher horse teetering on top of the high horse that I am already on. If you're really worried about how other people judge you, then don't blog about how terrible other people are. There are innumerable ways to get payback in an amusing way. Modern oeuvres like Bridget Jones tell us that women, gathered in three or fours, will speak amusingly of men’s follies. Well, us dudes, in between sessions of Madden and high fiving each other, will admit too that, yes, China Dirt may have a pretty face but is getting Bibendum-like in the midsection (j/k, unless you really are).

But see, we’ve kept that to ourselves! We didn’t start a blog about it because we don’t want people to think we’re dicks. You too can exercise some restraint and keep the juicy bitchiness within the confines of brunch or cosmohour or what-have-you. We would be sad to see you go, China Dirt, but I feel we’d all get some extra time to make ourselves better people.

Your friend,


Skippy-san said...

You should really allow trackbacks. It makes it easier to answer your accusations without taking up your bandwidth.

Which, had you left my link up, you would have seen that I am quite proud to be a "western man who loves" Asia. For all the reasons you deride. Get over it.

If I had wanted to put up with attitude I would have stayed in the states.

There are men out there and plenty of opportunities to meet them with a little imagination. I assume you don't like running or the Hash House Harriers-which ususally have a lot of western men. Oh yea I forgot-they like to drink beer. Boo friggin'who.

Shannon said...

My new hero is Mitch, who wrote:

"If you're really worried about how other people judge you, then don't blog about how terrible other people are."


Kyle said...

I think the problem simply boils down to this: the age old problem of guys just wanting sex most of the time, and girls wanting "meaningful relationships."

But what does a relationship mean in China anyway? You yourselves said that 'students' aren't too sleazy, but they're gone before you know it. Isn't this true of almost every foreigner in China? Are you planning on living here for the rest of your life? If so, 留个电话号码。

In my eyes, there are two kinds of sexual relationships, 'play' and marriage. The odds of me finding a wife in China are incredibly low, same as you finding a husband. What do I do to solve the problem of my libido? I have sex with people who don't have 'meaningful relationships' with me. Is it shallow? Yes. Is it meaningful? Not terribly.

What's the point of creating some 'deep and meaningful' relationship here when you know you're going to leave in three years(or months) ending any chance of death doing you part?

"4. It's our blog and we'll bitch if we want to. This site is how we deal with our frustrations about the dating scene in China. Anyone reading has probably experienced the pain of a break up or complained about a unreasonable significant other. Some girls deal with break ups by sobbing into pillows, some burn the ex-boyfriend's posessions, some (true story) stab the guy with butter knives, we've decided to make a snarky blog."

Keep on blogging, I enjoy the read. I agree most of the foreigners in China are pretty worthless, no need for sobbing into pillows over them.

My best advice: stop stressing about finding the one for you. You're not going to find him here. If you're worried so much about your biological clock then maybe you should go back home for a while, see if you can find anyone you'd enjoy spending the rest of your life with, and marry him. If not, then relax, chill, have a good time, and make sure the guys wear condoms. But don't stop blogging.

Driver8 said...

I read because it is a damn good rant. A little blog butt kicking; most excellent indeed.

Lisa said...

Just ignore the assholes, they're only looking for attention and are jealous of all that you've attracted. That, and you've no doubt struck a nerve with all the LBHs out there.

The expatriate dating scene is a bizarre world with lots of stories worth telling, and I'm glad you're doing so.

It seems foreign men even if they come to China cool they are quickly ruined, believing that all these women want them for their looks/personality/sexual prowess rather than their passport and money. Because they never integrate into the non-temporary society here, there's no one to call them out on what idiotic skankers they're being. Showing them the mirror may be painful for them, but you're doing them a favor.

I'm a lifer and a white woman who only dates Chinese guys, and I've found even Overseas Chinese get as ruined by the expat sexual marketplace as the white guys. I'd be curious to hear why you still date Western men despite all the bad experiences you've had.

To Kyle, actually, some us do plan on staying and are looking for partners here rather than flings. (But lots of good points.)

Shaan Khan said...

why would you ever rule out someone you don't know simply because of where they come from? I hope I never become that cynical.

That said, I have yet to meet a non-asian expat girl that I'd want to have a relationship with, though I'm friends with several and don't consider them so condescendingly as it seems many of them consider us.

As for why there are so many Western men who are assholes, specifically why living in China seems to corrupt even the nicer ones, I think it has to do with a lack of accountability, not necessarily sexual lust.

Living in China is like Peter Pan in Neverland--we have no need to grow up because there's no reason to grow up unless we hold ourselves accountable to ourselves. Many of us don't do that or don't want to do that.

Yes, we are immature like that. But if that's new to you, you might need to get your head out of the sand.

Guys--I think you all just need to masturbate more. Going against conventional Catholic/Christian wisdom, it's not a sin and it doesn't kill brain cells, but it does provide relief in times of need. (And no bitchy aftermath when you're trying to escape out the door before she wakes up.)

Leah said...

There are so many blogs on China written by expat men-- some of them providing earnest and thoughtful commentary on newsworthy topics, some of them narrating personal experiences and generating laughs at China's expense. As I see it, this blog has a role just as cathartic-- and legitimate-- as any.

It's irritating (if unsurprising) that many of the men who have commented here are so threatened by your words that they feel compelled to question your right to say them. And I just want to echo the comments already made by Maggie and Mitch, et al.: this is your space, these are your experiences and there's no reason you shouldn't share them (hell! even embellish them, if you feel like it), without apology or qualification, as you see fit. Responding to the attacks you've weathered only gives the whiny jerks more attention than they deserve. Such guys are certainly not without access to plenty of blogs that share their own (phallocentric) world views; perhaps they should content themselves with reading only the things that do not challenge the formidable (white) male privilege they enjoy.

In the mean time, keep going-- for the sake of processing your experiences, and for the sake of finally putting more women's voices out there.

Screw the rest of 'em.

Ron said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ron said...

hey, chinadirt, you're getting away from what you do best! expat bashing!

so ignore peking man's pathetic attempts at clever rhetoric and spamming, and keep mitch's moralizing entries for sheer entertainment.

so get on with the mission that i love so much!

R. Schwendeman said...

Gee. Someone sounds a wee bit pissed off at the competition.

Having lived in China for quite a number of years, and just when I was thinking how nice it would be to meet a normal western girl, I stumbled across your blog. Which by the way, is a refreshing reminder of why ages ago, I stopped dating western women.

Here is a few reasons:

- Pale, pink clammy goose-bumps skin.
- Fat, oversized rumps.
- Dumpy, wrinkled clothing and bad fashion (so many western women here really let themselves go).
- Excessively liberated (translation: Angry, bitter, hostile & bitchy)
- No sense of femininity any more (If I wanted testosterone, I would be gay)

And the list goes on! The best thing is, you still act surprised that men are out trying to get laid... (duh!) And angry that some of us are actually succeeding at it too.

There are a lot of guys that are tired of dating local women, and would much rather meet a nice female from their own country. Unfortunately its bitter women like yourselves that reinforce and encourage the exact sort of behavior you are complaining about. No wonder nobody wants you... I would recommend men stay away too, lest they get bitten or something!

But then again what would I know ... I am probably just another one of those scummy expat guys...

Besides, there is a place for you women too, you know - its called South America!

Christophe/Duofu said...


This is actually the first time I got to access your blog, and I have to say its pretty sexy ranting at the common expat sleezy men that are out there.
I m really going to follow up on this coz it just amuses me.

I have no idea how long you have been out in China, but it seems you haven't gotten down to the reasons why these men you rant about so profusively are all sleezebags. Allow me to impart some details about them:

1 85% of them are here on "short-term" assignments sent over by their unassuming stupid boss, coz they work well in their homecountry and "get things done" nevermind they don't speak Chinese, we trust them and off they go.
2 Off they go, having an engineers degree already gave them status in their own countries, their ego gets busted some more by the fact that they are white and seem to get all the attention
3 Having never gotten that kind of attention before they go for the "full deal" since they also get generous wages and loads of extra-legal advantages, making their heads swell beyond any normal proportion.
4 Once they are there its unstopable,but luckily it ends when a) they screw up big time because their heads were in their arses when signing that deal, B) they genuinely fall in love and decide to learn Chinese and suddenly discover what is really being said about them C) they go to another country with another assignment, D) Their wife comes over and files for a divorce

So where are all the good guys then?

If they are under 40? Out in the country trying to master Chinese at a decent level, learning to read and write as well (next to speaking cuss words) while doing jobs such as "English Teaching" trying hard to live on their shoestring budgets.
Taking all the bullshit from these expat dudes and solving the mess, without thankyous
Coming home to their usually very lovely but not so outgoing Chinese Girlfriends after being knackered from a whole day of dealing with these assholes you rant about.

Coz, face it, why is that so many of these guys can go out and party from thursday through to saturday? It's because someone else is cleaning up their shit.

Thanks for dissing all the idiots and their stupid bosses who send them over.

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